Serious Privacy
The PICCASO award winning Podcast, for those who are interested in the hottest field of human rights and laws on the digital frontier. Whether you are a professional who wants to learn more about privacy and privacy laws, data protection, GDPR or cyber law or someone who just finds this fascinating, we have topics for you from data management to cybersecurity, from social justice to data ethics and AI and digital identity protection. In-depth information on serious privacy topics including interviews with privacy leadership, privacy culture, serious discussions, and more.
This podcast, hosted by Dr. K Royal, Paul Breitbarth and Ralph O'Brien, features open, unscripted discussions with global privacy professionals (those kitchen table or back porch conversations) where you hear the opinions and thoughts of those who are on the front lines working on the newest issues in handling personal data. Real information on your schedule - because the world needs serious privacy.
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Serious Privacy
Tech Talk: Innovation during COVID-19
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
The times of Corona are far from behind us, so also this week, we bring you a medical topic: what is the relation between technological innovation and pharma? How can they work together to facilitate new ways of working? And why do innovation and quick thinking really count in a pandemic like we have now?
Join us to hear Ashley Slavik of Veeva and Jennifer Couture of Alexion discuss the innovation they have seen over the past month - everything from how tech helps companies enhance their business activities to working with colleagues in new ways. Ashley relates how Europe thanks healthcare workers and Jennifer shares how water cooler conversations can still happen. We bring profound insights and tricks to make every day better.
Resources
- Veeva is responding quickly to help clinical trial sites keep running studies and treating patients with free remote monitoring capabilities. Learn more: http://bit.ly/Remote-Monitoring
- https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/26/veeva-systems-crm-usage-increased-tenfold-amid-race-to-find-covid-cure.html
- https://pharmaleaders.com/covid-19-accelerates-digital-transformation-in-life-sciences/
- The latest thought-leadership content about privacy is on the Privacy by Design page of Crossix.com.
- Crossix commitment to COVID-19 consumer education was covered in AdWeek.
Social Media
- https://www.facebook.com/VeevaSystems/
- https://twitter.com/veevasystems
- Crossix on LinkedIn
- Crossix on Twitter
If you have comments or questions, find us on LinkedIn and Instagram @seriousprivacy, and on BlueSky under @seriousprivacy.eu, @europaulb.seriousprivacy.eu, @heartofprivacy.bsky.app and @igrobrien.seriousprivacy.eu, and email podcast@seriousprivacy.eu. Rate and Review us!
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From Season 6, our episodes are edited by Fey O'Brien. Our intro and exit music is Channel Intro 24 by Sascha Ende, licensed under CC BY 4.0. with the voiceover by Tim Foley.
The times of corona are far from behind us. Also, this week we bring you a medical topic. What is the relation between technological innovation and pharma? How can they work together to facilitate new ways of working? And why do innovation and quick thinking really count in a pandemic like we have now? My name is Paul Breitbart.
SPEAKER_02And I'm Kay Royal, and welcome to Serious Privacy. Today we are pleased to bring to you a couple of friends of mine that work in the healthcare and the tech industry. Today's session is going to be about medical tech and innovation. I'm going to let the speakers introduce themselves because then I'm going to hit them with the question.
SPEAKER_01Sure. Well, thank you so much for allowing me to join the podcast. I'm an active listener. So my name is Ashley Slavic, and I'm the Chief Privacy Officer and Lead Data Council of Viva Systems, and we're a cloud solution provider to the life sciences industry.
SPEAKER_03Jennifer? Hi, Jennifer Kutore. I'm the Chief Privacy Officer and Lead Privacy Counsel for Alexion Pharmaceuticals Inc., and very excited to be here.
SPEAKER_02Thank you. Now, Ashley says she's an avid listener, so she might be prepared for this. So the question today, the unprepared personal question, is the glass half full or half empty?
SPEAKER_01Well, so for me, I think you have to say the glass is half full because optimism is the way we're going to get through this and we have to be in it together. Nice. Jennifer?
SPEAKER_03The ironic thing is that we actually have a project that's that's a lot of what we're doing from our COVID response that is called the Glass Half Full Project. And so I I you know, I usually wouldn't disclose internal stuff, but but we really are trying to look at this time period and say, okay, not only do we have to be responsive, but also what are the lessons that we can learn? Because more and more are companies trying to be more virtual, anyways. And I think this is forcing a lot of us to actually take that time, you know, take these learnings and move in that direction. So, you know, we keep looking at the things that we're doing and we're saying, okay, but on top of it, we think this is the direction that we might need to push, anyways, moving forward. I love it, Paul.
SPEAKER_00I never understood why half empty is a bad thing because it means you're so much closer to a refill.
SPEAKER_02It depends on what you're drinking, Paul. I love it. And for myself, and and Ashley will get this. This really is my perspective. For myself, my perspective is it's not half. Have you measured this? It's not exactly half.
SPEAKER_03Also true.
SPEAKER_02Okay, so let's move into our fabulous topic today on medical tech and innovation. This was something I reached out to Ashley and said, I absolutely want you to come on our podcast and speak to us. And her response was really cool to get privacy counsel together in the medical field, not to focus on COVID per se, but how tech can facilitate new ways of working and why innovation and quick thinking really counts now in a pandemic. So I want to lead it off with that first question. And Jennifer, I'm gonna go to you because you were just talking about your project that feeds into this. Was this something you started before COVID because of work going to more virtual surroundings and needing to be more innovative? Or was that something that you started in the midst of what we're going through?
SPEAKER_03Well, I mean, I don't want to focus completely on what Alexion is doing as much as like what the need is, but I think that different companies that I've worked for were highly virtual and some of them aren't. I think that my company, because we're global in nature, we had a lot of things that were virtual, but we had to, because of COVID, I think, like other companies, we had to kind of take a step back for a very quick step because you couldn't, you couldn't wait, but fundamentally step back and say, okay, where were we not virtual? Where were we not, like, where did we feel like we needed to have that hands-on engagement and decide is that still appropriate or even possible? Nine times out of 10, it wasn't. And so then it became a matter of, okay, what are the tools that we maybe already have in place? And what are the tools, what are the partnerships, including actually different ones that you know with Viva, that that were important to say, what can we do? What are our like companies doing? What are our vendors doing that we can then leverage to a next step? So I think, you know, I've talked with a few other companies that I have peers in, and they're all kind of looking at it the same way of what do we got? What do we need to get? type idea.
SPEAKER_02And do you find that the solutions are more on the innovative side, or are they a case of, you know what, we were doing the right things. We just need to bread out the efforts. And I mean in general, not not necessarily Alexion.
SPEAKER_03Right. No, I think that a lot of the efforts were of a nature that we had to kind of step back and say, oh, well, we could be doing this a little more dynamically or or try. And I think that's again a more of an industry thing because I think that especially in pharma, it is a lot of hands-on in a lot of ways. And so, how do we then really help out in our relationships in a way that that can be less you know, virtual, less one-on-one, or maybe still one-on-one, but in a different way? So interactions with our healthcare providers and such. So a lot of times we would, you know, we have calls that our our people do with healthcare providers to see how, you know, kind of engage with them, make sure that they either, if they have questions, if they are kind of talking about our different drugs and things of that such, setting up KOLs and such. So now we had to, because no one's going to get access to any HCPs at the hospitals or at the institutions. So it's now about how do we engage with them? When one, making sure that they're allowing we allow them to do the priorities of the things that are most important to them right now, but just letting them know that if they have questions, we're available, that kind of thing and such. So it's it's about kind of being there more, but being there in a digital way versus kind of going to the actual hospitals and talking with them directly.
SPEAKER_02Ashley, are you finding it's it's the same thing? I know you're a great resource to all of your clients. Are you seeing that as a turn where you are as well? Is that you're strengthening the relationship with your clients? And you don't have to speak specifically to Viva, but I am interested. Are you strengthening the relationship through the clients using more digital means? Are they relying on you as a resource?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so it's interesting as Viva's mission is to build the industry cloud for life sciences. So actually, we were really well positioned for this. We have a long-standing relationship with Zoom, and 30% of our employees already worked remotely and uh use Zoom every day, as do I. You know, I'm I'm based in Barcelona and it's engaged meeting. So this is how pharmaceutical companies can engage with healthcare professionals in a remote way. And now everybody realizes how important that is. It was just something where we said, okay, what is the most important thing we can do to help now? And what we did was say, let's make it free to use for six months. So we can really just make sure everybody who has the opportunity to position themselves and move digital can do it without any barrier. And we're also offering still digital engagement to help companies, even if they say, okay, we're gonna do this, but how do we get there? Right? Because not every company is well positioned as a legs to say, like, oh, we were already doing this. Some people might be starting from scratch. This is the way that we were looking at how we can help. We've seen an amazing success in the last two weeks. We've seen a 10 times uptick in virtual meetings between healthcare professionals and pharma. And even particularly last Friday, we saw over 900 meetings that were happening. And the interesting thing is we were seeing that those meetings lasted longer than the face-to-face interaction previously did. And so that's a win-win for everybody, right? Because the healthcare professional is getting more quality information at the time they want, at the place they want, and the way they want. And of course, the pharmaceutical company can provide exactly what they're trying to do as well. So we we've had seen that to be an enormous success.
SPEAKER_02Are you seeing any particular areas of the world that are not picking up the technology functionality, the benefits less than other areas of the world?
SPEAKER_01I mean, I wouldn't say specifically related to the tech. I think in the, as we've seen, the pandemic has evolved geographically. We did see some differences because Asia was impacted first. And so we saw that uh colleagues and customers in Asia were actually already using digital and remote means about four weeks or six weeks before Europe and then now in the US. So I wouldn't say that we've seen one area of the world that has chosen not to engage remotely. It's more that just the shift of as we're retracing the virus there.
SPEAKER_02Interesting. Paul, I know you have some questions lined up.
SPEAKER_00Well, hearing about all these different regions, for me, the immediate question that comes to mind is any uh do you see any obstacles in in the different legislations that apply around the world in making this work?
SPEAKER_03So, Jennifer, do you want to take that or yeah? I mean, I think that yes, there's always obstacles with the different legislation. Let's just be honest about that. I think it's just a matter of making sure that you find the ways to make this work and and and kind of enable compliance of it. So I mean, we saw that if we're focusing kind of on some of the more stricter, you know, the EU sent out guidance and then different DPAs sent out guidance that basically said PPR still applies. Um and and you know, I think that at the same time we are seeing that certain authorities in different spaces are saying, okay, you need to be compliant, but how you do that, there there will be a little bit of flexibility in that. Now, the privacy authorities haven't really said that, but they haven't said they they there's been a a feeling that that might be the case. That doesn't mean though, that we just throw out the the rule book by any means. And I think none of us would ever advocate for that. And so really it's about, again, I think that that ability to to leverage and pivot and working with our teams. And so I think that's why having your company really group together and make these specialized teams that are focused on, okay, when we're doing X, we need to have all these different parties come together. So, I mean, my days always were filled with meetings. They are now filled my days, my nights, my mid type idea with trying to make sure that we have the appropriate parties on all of the different actions and teams that we're really putting into place. But people aren't pushing back. It's it's about doing it compliantly, but doing it as rapidly as we can. For sure.
SPEAKER_02And I laughed while you were talking. And I know people that are listening to the podcast can't see the faces, so I explained this because when you said you don't throw out the rule book, I literally finished an article for ACC last night, one of the technical columnists. And that's exactly what I said was even in these times, you can't throw out the rule book. There is still proportionality. Proportionality really resonates with me.
SPEAKER_00Well, the proportionality is also a very important part of what we are discussing today. Data protection in the EU is, of course, a fundamental right, but we also all know that fundamental rights are not absolute. They were never intended to be absolute. So they always need to be balanced out against other rights that people have, including the help to good health and medical care and the right to live.
SPEAKER_02So I was gonna say, yeah, nothing's as fundamental as the right to keep breathing.
SPEAKER_03Right. And I think I think one thing that we've been doing, and I suggest to everybody, is even as you're doing stuff, we're always about documentation, documentation, documentation, documentation. We might not have the ability to do as long detailed documentation as we maybe had in other um circumstances. Doing a full DPIA versus kind of get these questions answered and document all that kind of stuff might be a little more challenging. If we are making those decisions and we're having to make them quickly, you need to document that kind of stuff. You need to make sure that you're you know able to go back and then put them into your, you know, Article 30, your, you know, whatever, and do those full risk assessments. So not children.
SPEAKER_00It almost sounds like you have the script for my lectures.
SPEAKER_03It's it's definitely about maneuvering and capturing everything you did as much as possible so that then you can say, This is the justification on why we did something. And that that's going to be so important if there's ever a question.
SPEAKER_02Now, what if they weren't already privacy by design, Ashley? I mean, y'all two seem to be on top of this, but we're focusing on the industry in general, and we're seeing a lot of warnings come out now saying better watch that Zoom. Do you have the right agreements in place? Do you have the enterprise agreement? A lot of companies are very generous in offering their technology. We've got Logmin, Zoom, Google, Microsoft, Cisco, a lot of them offering their technology for free or at a very, very low cost, almost free. But yet you still need that enterprise agreement in place, you still need that privacy in place. What about the ones that aren't that don't have privacy baked into their technology? How hard is it for them to go back and build that in? If, in other words, if people aren't paying attention to what they need to do this time next year, or hopefully in six months, well, yeah, what's that gonna mean?
SPEAKER_01I think what we're gonna see is in the future, I mean, the California Attorney General has said they are not going to delay enforcement, you know, related to CCPA, even given, we know whether the opinions on that are true or not. But from your mouth to God's ears, please.
SPEAKER_02Or at least Attorney General Becerra's ears.
SPEAKER_01Right. So what I'm saying is that you know, the future of those people who aren't well positioned and haven't documented it and they're just gonna go and share data without care in the world for the privacy protections, you know, they're gonna see their day in court in that respect. But I think, you know, you certainly need to be proportionate and you know, you shouldn't just jump on any app that will take your data and do anything. I mean, that we still have to be responsible. We're seeing the world shift in ways that none of us could have expected. And so as a user, you should also be thinking about that as well. Is that you know, five, 10 years ago, we didn't the privacy landscape wasn't the way it exists today, too. So really, I mean, the future is something we don't know. And so you still have to be mindful of what we've agreed upon.
SPEAKER_03Can can I jump on that in one fashion? Because I I think one thing that I'm continually happy about is is the fact that, you know, if you have a provider, a lot, a lot of these providers right now, they know the situation and they have kind of the tools in place to help their vendor, you know, help their customers be compliant. You know, they have the DPAs, they have the privacy agreements. It's the ones that are making it challenging in that regard that you might want to step back and say, well, wait a minute, this is not, if they're challenging here, how are they actually going to be in the other way too? And so, you know, I think that it's actually in crisis mode that we find out who our real partners are in a lot of ways. You know, I think that the ability to send an email saying, okay, if we're going into a new technology, does the agreement I already have in place work? Or I don't have an agreement, I'm working with you for the first time. What does it take to get this done? And then could we come back to the table and negotiate maybe later if there's parts that we're still figuring out, rather than having it go through our full team or something of that such? I think having that ability for the vendors and the customers to work together to figure out what is needed now, but have that ability and have the that we could come back to if it needs to. Hopefully it doesn't, having that flexibility on both parties is is going to be critical.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, sure. And that shows that you who your true friends are, who your true partners are, right?
SPEAKER_00Sounds like a very good recommendation for a lot of our listeners.
SPEAKER_01So, what I wanted to say is I don't know if you have all also noticed this, but ever since this pandemic has been happening, I've been receiving an unprecedented number of COVID-19 positions from companies who telling me that they have my data and how they can help and what their position is, and branding, and sometimes even including discounts or marketing services. You know, I'm a European resident, so I'm wondering, have they not thought about the GDPR?
SPEAKER_00Well, this sounds to the weeks in the run-up to GDPR all over again when I got tons of emails from companies I didn't even know had my contact details stating that I needed to consent with their new privacy policy, which obviously I did not under the GDPR, or telling me they had a new policy or that they were GDPR compliant when they weren't. It it very much resonates those days.
SPEAKER_03I've seen far more volume than I got for GDPR for CCPA combined. And it actually became a poll that one of my friends informally did was how many have you gotten? And this was actually two weeks ago. So they just keep coming in. I think that actually speaks to some of the earlier points that we were talking about. Does a company in itself reach out? Think about that before you do it, because the audience probably doesn't want it. And if one thing we can take from a lot of this is also be measured about how you're responding to certain things and such, but you could also be putting yourself on a radar that you didn't have before.
SPEAKER_02That's true. I don't think that reaching out right now means that, oh my gosh, we're missing the boat, we're in a crisis, we need to communicate with people. I think it's more of a burden now. We appreciate the companies that are not reaching out.
SPEAKER_01Exactly. And that's what I was gonna say to follow up on what we talked about before. This is the time when you see the partner, you know, how they're managing, because if their marketing team is now using this as an opportunity to benefit, you know, that really says a lot about the company and the organization. And I just want to say one last plug about CrossX. This is a company that's part of Viva. They're working a lot on PSA campaigns because they've realized it's really important to get the right information to the right person at the right time. And like Jennifer said, if you just start blasting your database, most of those people don't care about that message. And then they're not going to be getting the information that they really need because it's not going to be targeted to them. And so uh CrossX is actually working to help those companies that are doing PSA, you know, large-scale announcements to direct it to the right person. And so I just thought that was interesting because I was working on it behind the scenes, and then to see such an onslaught from these other companies where you just stop to make you think, wait, did the privacy officer approve that?
SPEAKER_00And just for my clarity, PSA is a public service announcement, right?
SPEAKER_02Correct. Correct. Well, and not only that, if someone was tempted to just deal with spam and just delete it or ignore it, now they're motivated to unsubscribe. I know I am.
SPEAKER_00What what else are lessons that you've learned so far during this corona crisis in the two, three weeks that we are now confined to our homes?
SPEAKER_01Well, I would say it for me, I one thing that I've learned is the importance of connection. You know, I mean, we have there have been so many innovation and just cultural things that you've seen that have taken place. Like, for example, every night at 8 p.m., I don't know if this is also happening in the US, but everybody's opening their windows and clapping and applauding the healthcare workers in in Barcelona and in Paris. And I mean, this is just something, you know, it gives you chills because it's everybody's connected. And, you know, I can't tell you how many of my friends have offered drama classes for children or yoga or you know, just people really coming together and trying to make the best of the situation and showing that connection, which you know definitely puts a smile on your face.
SPEAKER_03Definitely.
SPEAKER_01That is fantastic.
SPEAKER_03I actually have schedule, so because I can't sit right next to the couple of the people on my team, we have a check-in every Monday, Wednesday, Friday in the mornings type idea. But I've also been connecting with my DPO more. And so so I have that lets them know that we're doing you know, that we're still here, that we're still engaged, that that that we're still on task and such. But I think connection with teams, we have Zoom chats that are larger groups, smaller group, things like that. I think those really help because even just when we first started, you know, what are you guys having for dinner tonight? Nothing we would ever ask in the office.
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_03But it was like, okay, like some humanity. I don't know, you know, you guys can't see my my background or anything like that, but we are having some serious fun at my company with the Zoom background. My I was just on a call where somebody had the old West in the background and he brought out a cowboy hat and everything like that, because if everything is so serious right now, let's add a little levity to it.
SPEAKER_02Well, you know, we're not gonna say that somebody wore a supergirl shirt in her legal meeting yesterday that actually had a cape attached to it. Yeah, we're not gonna say that.
SPEAKER_03Her costumes, if you all don't know, are notorious and wonderful. And she should do a contest alone on her costumes.
SPEAKER_02I even recorded reading a book as Cruella. I didn't like how the technology came out because you need to not only have the face of the person reading, you need to actually have shots of the book. And so I really need two cameras, one behind and one in front. That way you can flick from side to side. Okay. Uh, next topic. There was a couple of things that y'all actually said that resonated with me. I'm going through my list here. I love how you say it's the collaboration and connecting with people that you wouldn't normally collect on. The new work from home. A lot of us have worked from home for years, or we've periodically worked from home. We have a setup, we have an office, we know what we're doing. This is not the normal work from home. Kind of thing. What kind of flexibility and accommodations are you seeing for children running in the rooms, parents running in the room, having to deal with, oh my gosh, this just happened?
SPEAKER_00Continuous post messages with new news updates on the development of the crisis and so on.
SPEAKER_01Well, I think to Jennifer's point, it's about seeing more of the whole person. You know, something we did uh within our company is one of the colleagues was a meditation, you just came back from meditation retreat. And so he offered a half an hour of a meditation session that we did this morning. So that was something where, you know, I wouldn't normally have done that, but now I was able to start my day with my colleagues meditating. And then another thing is we've built in 10 minute breaks at the end of a meeting. This is from our CEO. He said, you know, there are family things. You need to take a break. You need to make sure your kids have the next activity ready or prepare lunch. Let's just everybody work towards building in those human breaks. So those are the kind of things that we've thought about.
SPEAKER_02And you're so delicate, Ashley. You need 10 minutes to go potty. Let's just be fair here. You need to go potty. It's a fundamental right. Jennifer, what about for on your side?
SPEAKER_03For on our so I can't help but laugh at the potty. So I I I started this call before we started recording with letting this team know that right now my office became the classroom. And that's okay. I don't know if you've heard little whispers in the background. And if you do, I apologize to the listeners. But you know, I think we've had everybody's had kids come in. I have a dog whose bed is right next to my desk. She insists on getting on my lap every now and then. But I think we're all, I have seen just an overwhelming internally, externally, just an abundance of people not caring about that and almost embracing it. And that's again to Ashley's point, where we are seeing the whole person in a lot of ways, in a way that we never really thought about before. And we have to, because we're all, I think one thing that we are also seeing is that that work life split is really not able to be found in this current environment. Being able to be flexible and maybe taking that time in the midday to go for a walk outside if you're allowed by your local requirements, or at least take a break. We all have to kind of allow for a better work-life balance, but a split that wasn't really a problem, I think, for a lot of people who, even when they did work from home, they really didn't feel that same kind of impact that we're all feeling now, or at least I can say personally, I am very much feeling it feels very different than my old work from home. For sure.
SPEAKER_01And yeah, so I have a question on that to the team. We all believe we're going to get through this and we look to next year. I mean, do you think those things, like you said, knowing more about the whole person and I guess maybe knowing more personal information or personal data than you you would have previously? Do you think that would have a lasting impact on the way people will work in the future?
SPEAKER_00I think so. I think it will actually help teams to better understand each other, each other's motivations, it's each other's drivers maybe to work uh and why they work in a certain way, why they schedule their day in a certain way, why they are available sometimes at night and sometimes only in the mornings, and also just have a better understanding, a better appreciation of the person. And I do think that that is something that will stay. It hopefully makes things closer as well when we all come back.
SPEAKER_02Right. Well, there is a meme I came across. I don't know if it's a meme, it was a quote I came across on Facebook, and I think this group might be a good one to put it to. This was very humbling. Um, and I'd love to have your reactions to it. It was a view from an Indian doctor, and I guess it was about a week ago. Said social distancing is a privilege. It means you live in a house large enough to practice it. Hand washing is a privilege too, it means you have access to running water. Hand sanitizers are a privilege, it means you have money to buy them. Lockdowns are a privilege, it means you can afford to be at home. Most of the ways to ward off the coronavirus are accessible only to the affluent. In essence, a disease that was spread by the rich as they flew around the globe will now kill millions of the poor. All of us who are practicing social distancing and have imposed a lockdown on ourselves must appreciate how privileged we are. Many Indians won't be able to do any of this.
SPEAKER_03Wow. I mean, even this topic, we're talking about technology and and how you deal with the pandemic. I mean, the technology attributes are a privilege being able to continue our work and such in not have the I mean, it is impacting us, but not not in the way that he's describing. I he's right. I have no words to say though to speak to it, other than I No, no, it's it's certainly true.
SPEAKER_02No, it it resonated. I can see from your faces that it resonated with y'all too, because I I think about friends who are working in customer service centers. And you would think you could do customer service at home, but but maybe you can't. Maybe there's ways. They don't consider themselves essential, but the service they provide, whatever their company is in, has a government contract. And so since they're a government contractor, they're considered essential workers. He can't afford not to go to work. Everyone who had a vulnerable health condition or was over a certain age, so therefore they're more vulnerable or had someone at home that was, was allowed to not be at work. But anyone that was deemed to be essentially a young, healthy adult was expected to show up for work, therefore exposing themselves more than that. That's for the US.
SPEAKER_00And um I'm indeed quite concerned about Africa, about Latin America, about India and the wider Southeast Asia region. Our minister here in the Netherlands for Foreign Trade and Development Cooperation just the other night on TV said that also we in the West have a responsibility to keep supporting those countries, also fighting this crisis. And not only because it is the right thing to do, but also to ensure that we in the West can keep continuing living the life we want to live. You often hear, especially in these days, the more nationalist-driven people saying, Oh, yeah, but we should care for our own people first. But caring for other people is also caring for your own people. Uh and not many people realize that. Sorry for going political here.
SPEAKER_03No, no, I don't disagree.
SPEAKER_02I don't think that was political, Paul. I think that was human.
SPEAKER_01Ashley, thoughts? Oh, I mean, that was uh a really profound statement, and it definitely makes you realize how how grateful you are to have the things you have. And so I think just being mindful of that and and paying it forward, like you said, you know, doing the things that we need to do and working together. I mean, that's the best thing we can do to get through this. Thank you for sharing that.
SPEAKER_02Six months up the road, what kind of world are we looking at? What kind of impact is this going to have on future generations? And you can go positive, such as the technology will absolutely grow and be much more advanced, or you can go not so positive, a glass half full, half empty thing. It's not half.
SPEAKER_03Ashley, I'll let you go.
SPEAKER_01Well, I think it's it'll be an interesting opportunity to leapfrog. And if we really tie it back to the original topic of innovation, and you know, I was thinking of one of our aspects that we mentioned is commercial, but another one is related to clinical trials. And we said, you know, there's all kinds of things that are going on, business as usual, that actually now aren't. So, you know, six months down the line, we're starting to see that impact of the clinical trial that was stalled, then now had to be put back in. And, you know, court cases, you know, you're gonna look at the legal system, the health system, employment. I mean, everything is just going to be different. And I think that's really the thing to really open up your eyes and see, wow, we've just had an opportunity to make a paradigm shift and totally change the way that we're working. Uh, so let's take the lessons learned and put them into place and remember the human connection, remember how technology can help, uh, and remember that there's a person behind the data that you're using, right?
SPEAKER_02Right. And I know that uh Paul brought up political, so I'll go with that. Even here in the US, our Congress is talking about voting remotely. They've never done that before. That might have a huge impact up the road. If they can vote remotely now, what's to stop them from not having virtual congresses and not having to spend six months of taxpayers' money to support them in Washington, D.C. to do this? Not saying that's a bad thing, just saying, is this a paradigm shift for politics as well?
SPEAKER_00Sometimes a debate can be helpful to come to conclusions on what a law should look like.
SPEAKER_03Right. Yes, but it will also be quite challenging for them to argue that they couldn't that they abstained from a vote or couldn't appear in those kind of things.
SPEAKER_02There you go. So even if not the whole Congress, bits and pieces at a time.
SPEAKER_03One thing that I I'm hopeful is gonna be not impacted in a negative way is I think for a lot of us, because we always had technology, and again, then we're talking about that group that does, we always felt uber connected already. And now it's gonna be even harder to break that free, I have a feeling. So I think it's going, I'm hopeful that because now we are seeing more of the whole person because they can't separate it out, that we'll learn to adapt in a way that allows us to still maintain the positive connectivity and digital attributes that we're going to hopefully enhance to allow for more diversity and things like that, but also that we respect the whole person in a way that that I'm I don't want to be lost in the technology advancements that we're what about the styles of work though?
SPEAKER_02There are people that that work and they thrive over those water cooler conversations. I mean, I'm an introvert, I do just fine at home. The problem is I'm stuck at home with two extroverts. I I never thrived in those water cooler conversations, but there are people who do.
SPEAKER_03That's how they work. Well, I mean, we're all sitting here on a call that we can see each other. I mean, I know the audience can't know that we're seeing each other, but I can, you know, even when I go on mute, which I've been trying to do, you all can see my facial expressions. This is why I don't play poker. Um, Jennifer, we're to go. And and such, so I think that we've created again, the technology is enabling us to still have those water cooler conversations. Is there a difference? Yes. There's there's no doubt about it. It's not the same as like if you were actually sitting in a, you know, next to me physically, but it's it's not so much. And I think we all are starting to get more and more used to it. We've always had these kinds of been in companies that have had similar technology since the early 2000s, if not earlier. So, you know, it's not new.
SPEAKER_00They only have to be scheduled much more than in the past and uh than when you meet each other in in in real life, because if you if in real life you can also meet somebody who's not part of your own team or you maybe haven't met before. And uh for for those situations, it might actually be helpful to still have the real life. But I am convinced that at some point we'll also go back to to working from offices again, if only for a few days a week.
SPEAKER_02Very true. So I know that we are getting close to the time to end. So I want to close off with one last question to each of you. Unless, Paul, you have another question you you need. Okay, we're gonna go to what's the best trick you have now learned in the new world that we're living in for working.
SPEAKER_00Ashley.
SPEAKER_01Well, I would say to smile, just to to laugh, to find humor in the everyday situations. I mean, that's that's free, something you can give, and and it really makes everybody's day better. Thank you both, all of you, for doing your part in that because it's just been a pleasure to talk with you. And um, yeah, I think that's the best way to move forward is just to smile. I like that.
SPEAKER_02Jennifer.
SPEAKER_03Uh, how do I build on that one? Um, I think, yeah, find find genuine joy in in anything you can because I think that that it will always make the day a better day.
SPEAKER_02Beautiful. I love it. Show up as your authentic self, laughing, costumes, capes, all of it.
SPEAKER_00And flowers. Beautiful. All right, Paul, bring us in. Thank you, Ashley. Thank you, Jennifer, for joining us for this week's episode of Sirius Privacy. It's been a pleasure having you on. To all our listeners, if you like our series, please do tell your friends and colleagues about us because we love to have more listeners than we already have. Subscribe in your favorite podcast app or listen to us online. Should you have any questions or suggestions, please reach out to us via SiriusPrivacy at Prustark.com or via Twitter at podcastprivacy or directly to Kay or myself. You'll easily find us all across social media. Thank you again for listening to this episode to Sirius Privacy. Until our next episode. Goodbye.
SPEAKER_02Bye, y'all.
