A slow week in privacy - so AI time!

On this week of Serious Privacy, Paul Breitbarth of Catawiki and Dr. K Royal cover a relatively slow week in privacy, including a settlement with Oracle out of California, some new WorldCoin investigations, KOSA, and a position paper from BEUC so we also throw in some frank discussion of AI tools and how they can help in our personal and professional lives.Tune in for some #livinglearninglaughing. 

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Transcript

please note this is a mostly AI-produced transcript. For the real thing, listen to the audio

 

[00:00:00] Paul: I can't say that this was really a week with groundbreaking data protection news and probably by the time that I say this, the groundbreaking data protection news will show up on all the blogs and websites and LinkedIn posts. But the moment we are recording, there are not any major things that have happened in the past couple of days or weeks. 

That's sad. We will talk about our week in privacy and some other things that we have encountered. My name is Paul Breitbarth. 

[00:00:39] K: And I'm K Royal and welcome to Serious Privacy. Unexpected question. Daniel Craig. Jason Statham 

[00:00:49] Paul: Daniel Crack because I have no idea who the other one is. 

[00:00:59] K: is also a really big action movie kind of person. He's, he's done a lot. He's very famous. But he, he plays characters to me that are a lot like Daniel Craig. Jason Statham used to be an Olympic diver or was that Daniel Craig? One of them used to be an Olympic diver before he became an 

[00:01:21] Paul: I'm pulling up Wikipedia now because I literally have no idea and if I see him, I still have no idea. Jason Statham was the sports guy. 

[00:01:31] K: Okay, that's what I was thinking. He was the Olympic diver. 

[00:01:34] Paul: well, in any case, the Commonwealth. I don't believe really the Olympics, but in any case, very high level diving. 

[00:01:42] K: Very high level diver. So he's been in Fast and Furious. He loves acting with Sylvester Stallone and The Expendables. People know him for The Transporter, which is really cool. I just watched The Beekeeper and I had no idea what The Beekeeper, not just watched like a couple of months ago, no idea what The Beekeeper was about and it was actually a pretty good movie. 

Another one of these secret, undercover, stealth government agencies, and it's The Beekeeper and They keep the bees in line and they'll kill the queen bee if they believe that it dangers the hive and all that. It's kind of cool. 

[00:02:15] Paul: If I look at the filmography of this gentleman, I understand why I don't know him, because I've literally not seen any movies in 

[00:02:24] K: well y'all have I think I think y'all figured it out from from the The the reaction there. I love them both. But I love beat them up blow them up movies And so i'm going Jason Statham, although I will say I absolutely adore Daniel Craig I will say the first Bond movie that Craig was in, I looked at it going, that's not Bond. 

That's not anything like Bond. I mean, look at that tiny little waist where his pants even cinch in at the waist. He doesn't have any, he doesn't have any muscles. He needs nothing. Okay. I was corrected differently by the time the movie ended. I was like, wow, I think he's really true to the portrayal of James Bond and he really made the role. 

So with that, that is a wonderful segue into what's hot for privacy this week. 

[00:03:08] Paul: Well, what's hot for privacy, if you, if you can call it hot, is that the data protection authority in the Dominican Republic has started enforcement against world coin, 

And has ordered them to seize their operations immediately because the contract is misleading and also violating data protection laws. 

[00:03:26] K: There you go. And we've seen some others against Whirlcoin. 

[00:03:29] Paul: yeah, Kenya, in any case I recall also enforced against WorldCoin. And I do believe there were others as well who who have done so. As a reminder, WorldCoin is the, is from the same owner as OpenAI. 

[00:03:44] K: Hong Kong, South Korea, Spain, Brazil, 

four other countries have blocked it and six others have started investigations, or so does Google's generative AI tell me. So y'all can tell how well we prepare for these sessions when it's a week in privacy, right? 

[00:04:04] Paul: K just start rambling and I'll try to make some sense of 

[00:04:07] K: He really does. It usually comes out not half bad, right? But yes, the world coin. So if you're invested in world coin might be something you might want to think about a little further. What else do we have? Let's stay in Asia a little bit. We have a little bit in Singapore that we've talked talked about Singapore and European Union formalized its partnership for AI safety through an administrative arrangement. 

Any more insight on that one? 

[00:04:35] Paul: No, not, not really, other than that, indeed, they are they are going to do this. The collaboration was signed in the European Union at civil servant level, so not by any of the the European commissioners, but it was already discussed before between the Singapore Minister for Digital Development and Information and the European Union's Executive Vice President, and the European Commission's. 

For digital Europe and it's about information exchange. It's about joint testing benchmarking and also looking to, in any case, standardize their approach to general purpose AI. So the large language models but also seeing what they can do together in terms of AI safety research. So I think this very much builds upon the framework of the EU AI Act and the online safety legislation that the European Union has. 

And I would say this is part of the bigger global discussion that was launched by the United Kingdom as part of the Bletchley Park Summit last year where Singapore was also a participant. So I would expect that there would be more of these bilateral agreements coming out in the the next couple of months. 

[00:05:49] K: Agreed. Absolutely agreed. And that tells you, speaking of the, the UK, a few things that did come out across them. I mean, nothing really earth shattering. They're responsible technology adoption unit. And the ICO announced its launch of Privacy Enhancing Technologies Cost Benefit Awareness Tool to 

start understanding PETs. 

The Science Innovation and Technology Committee is looking into social media algorithms and gen AI and spreading harmful misinformation which, was related to the anti immigration riots this past summer, and then the ICO joined nine global regulators in signing the joint statement on a common international approach to age assurance, and that was during the GPA, which I believe you already mentioned was coming. 

[00:06:42] Paul: Yeah, so also on the on the GPA all the resolutions have now been been published. I don't believe also there there is anything that is. That is earth shattering that we should immediately discuss. I think the most important one that has been adopted is a follow up to the discussion on the, Japanese initiative for for government data exchange. 

So to, to ensure that all of that is is made safer and that governments work together when it comes to national surveillance. The Data free flow with trust. That is what I was looking for. That resolution was adopted. There is also a resolution that was adopted during the conference, now available on the processing of personal information in neuroscience and neurotechnology, and one endorsing and encouraging the use of data protection certification mechanisms. 

I still believe that those certification mechanisms could be something where we see more movement in the next two or three years. I do believe it's valuable at the same time to get this fully up and running. Remains a very tedious process, especially if you want to make sure that they work at a global level and that they meet all the requirements, especially in By the EU, by the EU, but by now also by quite a few other jurisdictions on cross border data transfers. 

So to avoid that we have all these regionalized, so to avoid that we have all these regionalized sandboxes. 

[00:08:15] K: Yep. Agreed. Absolutely agreed. Was there anything else really happening Well, you had a position paper released. 

[00:08:24] Paul: I did? 

[00:08:26] K: Yeah, from the European Consumer Organization. Doesn't that 

count as you? 

[00:08:30] Paul: me. 

[00:08:31] K: That's not you, you're not 

[00:08:32] Paul: No. I wanted to say, when did I, when did I have time to write a 

[00:08:38] K: When did you have time to do this? So, the European Consumer Organization, which, by the way, I've never heard of before, 

[00:08:45] Paul: Yeah, Bayouk. 

[00:08:46] K: Are they big? 

[00:08:47] Paul: No, Bayouk, that's what they're called. 

[00:08:49] K: B U C. B E U C. Yes. Okay. Reports on an ongoing challenge in enforcing GDPR protections for individuals. Really? They're just now reporting on that? 

They support the European Commission's proposed procedural updates to the GDPR enforcement framework. The enforcement framework? Yeah. The GDPR enforcement framework. So I guess that was something, but maybe they're not as big as what the news made them sound like. All righty, let's see what else we have. 

In the U. S., settlement in California against Oracle for unlawfully collecting and selling individuals online and offline data without their consent, 150 million settlement fund. The Consumer Financial Protection Bureau issued a final rule to define larger participants of a market for general use digital consumer payment applications, which would be, they would fall subject to the CFPB supervision under their act, the Consumer Financial Protection Act. 

A non bank person Qualifies as a larger participant if it meets prescribed criteria in the final rule. So if that if that's what melts your butter people go read the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau's final rule have to admit it's not one that makes me feel so good about things happening in privacy. That one just I'm sorry y'all that one just doesn't hit my my radar, but 

[00:10:22] Paul: I'm sure there will be other things coming soon that, that will hit our radar. there is another 

meeting of the EDPB coming up, so that's the final one of the year. So probably see some uh, some new outcomes. I still 

think that it is 

their 

[00:10:38] K: that kind of like the final trailer to a movie? The one that comes after the credits? 

[00:10:43] Paul: I don't know. I think that is the the meeting where they will take some initial decisions on pay or okay. 

they promised that the first guidance would be out this side of Christmas. I'm not sure whether they'll make it to reach an agreement, but that is at least what what I will be looking out for. 

but something completely different. I I was on Jersey. because Just before the weekend, part of the weekend for our our strategy meeting to look ahead at the coming years. But while there, we also got talking a lot about artificial intelligence and whether that should be a part of our work program and, and all of that, not going to comment anything that will or won't be on the work program because that is all confidential. 

[00:11:26] K: Anything you say from here on out is based on just personal knowledge and people in the field and what you hear. 

[00:11:31] Paul: Well, I will, I will, I will attribute this to one of my board colleagues. They talked about one of the tools they had been using with with school kids to help them revise for exams. 

there is, there is a new thing from Google called Notebook LM. Which is basically a personalized AI research assistant. 

so you create your notebook and you upload all your documents. So the PDFs or the books that you need to study, any audio recordings of lectures that you, that you may have, or video recordings of lectures any notes that you have taken. And then NotebookLM will actually summarize all of that. And also suggest some some further information, but it will also help you to revise so it can tell you it can ask you questions to help you study. 

It will always cross reference with the information that you that you provided it so that you can verify whether the information is real. but most dangerously for 

us is 

[00:12:38] K: dangerously, 

[00:12:40] Paul: it makes podcasts. 

[00:12:41] K: It makes podcasts. 

[00:12:43] Paul: so that you can revise on the go. Well, the podcasts were, were 

[00:12:47] K: Okay, y'all can see my face here. I mean, my jaw has hit the floor. I'm like, No. 

[00:12:53] Paul: That was also my response when I first heard it. The podcasts are described to me as your average NPR podcast where an American man and an American woman talk to each other about the topic that you have created your notebook about. 

[00:13:06] K: Well, that ain't me and you, dude. 

[00:13:09] Paul: no, for sure, but that's, and also not without the laughter, not no fun, no, no laughing, no jokes, no unexpected questions. 

But apparently that is intended to help you revise if you are on the road, if you're commuting, if you're in the 

school bus or on the train. 

[00:13:25] K: of your notes. 

[00:13:27] Paul: Yeah, something like that, but not the full notes, but then the summary version and it's actually two people or two AIs talking to each other. 

[00:13:36] K: Hope they didn't take any models from me, because heaven help them there. 

[00:13:40] Paul: I don't believe that NPR speaks redneck, but 

[00:13:46] K: anyway. 

[00:13:46] Paul: is this is a first iteration, but just imagine that I don't know, a few years down the line you can, you can tell them let's create a, a podcast or an audio version of my notes in the style of Sesame Street 

or in the style of an Aaron Sorkin walk and talk. 

[00:14:07] K: I can just imagine how much fun people are going to have with this. Which, which makes me think of two things. One, how I used to study in law school, which I'll tell you. And two, I've actually thought about taking some of our topical podcasts and maybe even turning them into a Kindle podcast. book or a and load it on Audible, although I guess you could load a podcast on, no, Audible reads books. 

It doesn't do, okay, shut up, K. Anyway, turn them into books. That's a whole other thought we'll think about. You can tell I was up way too late last night. The other one that I thought of, though, was the, the notebook idea itself. When I used to study for law school, I didn't read for class. I, I think I've admitted that before. 

And the one time I did actually study and try to do well in class, I actually made the lowest grade I ever made in law school. the way I used to study is I would take the outline the professor would give us at the beginning of the year, and this would be at the end of the semester, in preparation for the final. 

In the U. S., most of your typical law school courses only, you, you only have one test at the end of the semester. Once you get into upper classes, you can choose to do classes with papers and stuff, but most of them have one test at the end of the semester. So you get to the end of the semester, I'd take my outline, I would start filling in the outline with anything in the book that I had highlighted in a certain color, were things that the professor read aloud to me. 

So, like, yellow was my color one semester. Everything a professor would read out of the case textbook, word for word, I would highlight in yellow. And at the end of the year, I could tell which ones he thought was more, or she, thought were more important than others. The other one is anything that I wrote in the margins, I would add in the outline as well. 

So, I would add in the professor's specific words they read outline, and then my own notes that I took in the outline. I never could resell my books back. That sounds like a wonderful use of a notebook. I could then upload all of my stuff into that and it would then create my whole study guide, which by the way, I stopped studying as soon as I did all this because I only took handwritten notes. 

I didn't take a computer to class. If I write it down, I remember it. If I type it, brain is not engaged. 

[00:16:20] Paul: Oh, that, that for me is not the issue. My issue was that taking computer to class would take forever and lugging around a big computer and a screen and a keyboard because when I went to university, laptops were still not very accessible to the average student. I think now I would have used a laptop or a tablet 

[00:16:41] K: Yeah, 

[00:16:42] Paul: make my notes. 

[00:16:42] K: nowadays when you're teaching law school, and I'm sure you have the same thing, you look out across the class and all you see are heads behind laptops. 

[00:16:52] Paul: yeah. And that's, but also for me that that's the way I work as well. I also make my notes on a tablet or, or on, on my laptop. So no surprise there. I, I wonder whether I would be comfortable using. tools like this, but that could also be the hindsight ideas that I have now that I'm much more aware about privacy and data protection than I was as a student, of course. 

[00:17:18] K: Well, and people upload their notes for law school classes now that you can log on to websites and you can get reviews of professors, which reminds me of reviews of judges, I mean, if you're in cases. All of this information now that's pulled together by mostly artificial intelligence that pulls together information on a particular topic or a particular person or how they've done things. 

And again, as Paul says, you have to use a tool that guarantees the accuracy, or at least gives you a fairly good guarantee of accuracy. You don't want to be the lawyer that, you know. got sanctioned by the bar for citing cases that didn't exist, which that will go down in history as the lawyer during COVID, whose face changed to a cat. 

[00:18:00] Paul: Mm hmm. So. 

no, that's, that's, that's, 

[00:18:02] K: call forward. 

[00:18:03] Paul: Exactly. So I'm not sure whether I would would use all of that at the same time. I think I would probably try if it would make my life as a student more efficient and more more effective in revising for exams. 

But I thought it was. It's interesting to, to see indeed that they also then can create these audible or, no, yeah, these, these audio versions, 

[00:18:26] K: right, 

[00:18:27] Paul: of a conversation and not just a boring computer voice reading it out, like Siri would, would read out something that it says to you, but really as an interactive conversation between two fictitious people. 

[00:18:40] K: Well, absolutely. And that, you know, brings to mind all the uses of AI, which we don't know all the uses of AI, but the uses of AI, which we don't talk about much in the privacy, privacy and data protection world. There are tools and things that people can use just like this notebook LM that I'm sure there are people who can use something like that for work. 

Would their work let them do it? Is it confidential corporate information that they're putting on there? Things like this. But aside from those, there are tool. There are tools like Scheduling meetings or the ones that make your day more efficient by pushing your meetings together. So your meetings are back to back for two hours, but then you have a two hour block of time to actually get work done. 

Things that the, of course, the transcription for meetings, which I'm sure everybody has pop up, whether they want it to or not. But there's, there's other AI things that can help you schedule meetings. I'm sure the half the things that reach out to me on LinkedIn are AI. And I know most of them are because they start with dear heart as opposed to dear K. 

Didn't do that deliberately, but that's a good sign to me to know when it's not real. But they reach out, they follow out, they, they, they find leads for you. If you're a salesperson or someone looking for something, they find contact. I mean, LinkedIn has its own algorithm that will show you the people that might be, you know, someone that you might want to connect with. 

I mean, Facebook does the same thing and it keeps showing me my ex husband and I'm like, No, 

[00:20:16] Paul: No, but those are two different things, right? You have, you have the machine learning algorithms on the one hand, which is basically if this, then that, but then on steroids. On the other hand, you have your Gen AI tools, which are much more advanced and much more predictive in how they have been designed and how they have been set up. 

And I do think that, of course, machine learning algorithms have been here for quite a while, and even the large language models have been around for quite a while, but only in the past two years, they have become really effective and, and, 

[00:20:52] K: Or more available to the general population 

[00:20:55] Paul: certainly more available. But also actually actually reliable in in their outcomes to a certain extent. 

But there are indeed quite a few tools that, that can probably make everybody's life a lot easier. You, you already mentioned scheduling and calendar apps. I'm using a, an, an app called Rise Calendar that was developed here in the Netherlands. It will help you. It combines like so many with task management and and your schedule, but it is actually based on the theories that were developed by the founder of this company in a book called grip. 

Grip the art of working smart and getting to what matters most and basically helping you to to structure your day in a certain way, by setting it up by putting it in indeed in those blocks that you, that you are referring to, 

[00:21:51] K: the time when you tell it that you are most awake and most energetic and it learns 

from your habits. 

[00:21:58] Paul: that, but also helping you, for example, to block off certain, certain time windows, 

[00:22:05] K: I mean, who doesn't want siestas anymore? 

[00:22:07] Paul: for focused work. And it helps you to suggest what the right times would be. uses AI to help you suggest when to meet with somebody else and how you can can do that in an effective way. 

[00:22:19] K: Well, it sets up family activities. My daughter has one of the ones that helps set up family activities programs in the children's school times and the holidays and when she has her time versus the ex husband, which she is now officially divorced. So that is the ex husband with his parenting time and her parenting time. 

But it can also help you with simple things that we've been doing for years. Recipe planning, and here's what you want to plan out for the week. And what ingredients do you need to buy at the store? And which ones do you already have on hand? Because your AI knows what you have. and what you need to buy. 

Now what's crazy is when it starts syncing with your health apps and it starts learning your lab levels and it says, I see you put BunnyTracks ice cream on your shopping list. You don't need BunnyTracks ice cream. Your blood sugar was 150. You know, I 

mean, It can still go overboard. 

[00:23:14] Paul: Those kinds of things I would not not indeed allowed to integrate. But 

what I, 

[00:23:19] K: need AI fussing at me too. 

[00:23:21] Paul: but what I do like is that I can create my tasks and just drag them onto my calendar and they show up basically as a meeting. and then it blocks off time across all my calendars because with all my different hats, I have lots of different calendars, 

[00:23:37] K: yeah. 

[00:23:38] Paul: that are all synced on here. 

[00:23:40] K: I might have to get that app from you. 

[00:23:42] Paul: Yeah. That makes what makes my life in any case a lot easier. Because now I don't have to. 

[00:23:49] K: Check five, 

five 

calendars to see. 

[00:23:52] Paul: yeah, and I don't have to tell my work. Hey I have a meeting in Jersey or a meeting for the patent office or a podcast recording. So you cannot schedule something in that slot that is automatically already blocked off. 

[00:24:05] K: But it also does vacation planning when you talk about traveling and everything like that. You tell it what kind of budget you want and it tells you where you can go. It asks for the 

things that you like. 

AI in general, 

not this app. It can ask for the things you like. Are you a family? Are you single? 

Are you a couple? What kind of, what kind of things do you want to see and do? And it will give you vacation planning. How many type vacations do you want to take over the next two years? How extensive do you want to go? And it helps you set up a savings plan as well as it sets up the sightseeing. I don't know if there's an app that does that, but I'm 

sure 

there are apps that? 

do different pieces of it 

[00:24:39] Paul: What's the fun in that? I mean, vacation planning is part of the fun of going on going on vacation of traveling. 

[00:24:47] K: people think so. My daughter asked me one time. Because here's the thing my two financial goals growing up Because we were so poor the bank didn't even put a value on the home. We lived in we were that poor So the two financial goals I had growing up was to be able to walk into the local Convenience store where we grew up. 

It was the super eight And to buy a coke without having to pull out the checkbook and see what my bank balance was first. My second was to go on a kick ass vacation every year. I've managed both, and so I should be happy, but now I have holes in my roof and I have no money to pay for them. But regardless, I, I can do both. 

I can still go buy a Coke, but I like to plan vacations. If you were to go somewhere, it, to experience It's not to go and sit on the beach for 12 hours out of the day and do nothing. And my daughter asked me one time as a teenager, Mom, can we just go on vacation and not do anything? 

I said, well, if that's the purpose of the vacation, sure, but I, I can't. 

can't lay on a beach, not to mention health ideas. My, I just can't. I have to go experience. It's a destination thing. I want to see and do the place where I am. So I get it when you say that's half the fun. It is for me. 

[00:26:09] Paul: mean, you can, you can ask AI to tell you what are the must sees in location 

[00:26:13] K: right? 

[00:26:13] Paul: XYZ. 

[00:26:14] K: I'm like, we can build in a day or two of rest of doing nothing. Some people on their vacations really do want to do nothing. You 

know, they just want. 

[00:26:22] Paul: when I don't do a lot, but then 

[00:26:24] K: Yeah, 

[00:26:24] Paul: a nice place to sit with a book and have some good 

food. 

[00:26:28] K: out of the sun with a good book and be just fine. So, 

[00:26:32] Paul: But that's not doing nothing, then at least you need to find a nice restaurant where you can have lunch or dinner or the cocktail bar or at least a place where you can sit with your book that also has a good view so that if you look up from your book you're 

[00:26:48] K: yeah. 

[00:26:48] Paul: inhaling car fumes but actually seeing some 

[00:26:52] K: Right. And those are some of the most fun memories I have of just sitting somewhere. Now, for me, it's sitting somewhere for 30 minutes, but sitting somewhere where it's quiet. And I take this picture of what I'm looking at. And it's like this perfect frame out over the Caribbean with the ocean. Palm fronds and white sandy beaches that I could probably walk on for five minutes and then I'd have to get out in the sun. 

But I still prefer sun vacations to cold vacations. I still haven't seen the northern lights. There are things that we have on our bucket list that I have a feeling there's an AI bucket list app out there that tells you what you're going to need to do to schedule these these bucket list items for yourself. 

So there's a lot of uses of AI out there that Paul and I, and if you notice, we haven't really brought in any AI laws. We haven't talked about privacy considerations hardly. We talked about the way AI in a normal everyday business and personal use can actually bring benefit to your life. So don't avoid AI, 

[00:27:57] Paul: No, but do use it consciously. I mean, use it consciously, look at the settings make sure that you check what data is being shared about you with whom and why those elements are important 

[00:28:11] K: yeah. 

[00:28:12] Paul: especially if you use it in a corporate environment, then try to make sure that you have your own instance, for example, and that any training of of language models will only happen for your instance and not for the greater good, because. 

then you need different safeguards on what kind of data you would share. I think we have given all these recommendations before 

[00:28:33] K: we have, 

[00:28:34] Paul: won't go into the full detail. 

[00:28:36] K: I want to bring up a specific example that we talked about when I went and talked about AI in law practice at Arizona, at the Arizona Bar Association summer convention. There's a lot of uses for AI in the law that will analyze law cases, and I don't mean in house law for me and Paul, a lot of it's for litigation work. 

And they do real time fact checking, just like the presidential debates. They do real time fact checking while you're in the courtroom at things that the opposing party says or has done. And that they can look up, and that, that second chair assistant that's pulling this information up, it really makes the, the trial time much more efficient much more real time. 

You no longer have these delays. For lawyers in particular, it helps with scheduling clients and doing conflict checks and things like this. But I'll say the same thing here that I said there. It's all wildly exciting and full of promise and probability and possibilities. You still have to be smart about it. 

You can't just blindly go and say, Whoa, this is really cool. Let's use it. Well, you can, but then you'll probably get in trouble. Whether you're a lawyer or not, there's probably some trouble out there waiting on you. If you're not smart about what it is that you're doing. 

[00:29:53] Paul: And, and you need to be smart. I think that's that, that's always relevant. You need to review these things. You need to take a look at, at what you're going to use and why you're going to use it and how all of that comes 

[00:30:06] K: Well, but your team panel said they're too long for them to read and they're way too legalistic for them to go read everything so they understand what it's telling them they do. So we need some sort of system that readily puts it in front of people. So what is your Your score here. I, I like my score to 9 across 10 different categories and you average 8. 

5. What am I giving up for that 8. 5? And is that 8. 5 worthy for me? There needs to be some sort of ranking or scoring or summarization. Heck, run Gen AI over the Terms of Service and the Privacy Notice and see what Gen AI tells you as a summary. They are. I mean, that's one good practical purpose you can use. 

I 

[00:30:48] Paul: Absolutely. So anything to add before we wrap up? 

[00:30:52] K: don't think so. I'm, I'm waiting to see what the rest of the year brings. Like I said, we're in American Thanksgiving this week, so Paul moved our scheduling up. Not to mention, we're going to uphold our commitments to y'all. Okay, I say that. We'll see where we are in six weeks when the year ends. If we are not at 47 episodes, I 

think is our standard for the year. 

[00:31:15] Paul: It's, it's usually 44, 45. 

[00:31:17] K: Okay, so we're going to do our best to hit those with y'all. We still have some that we've recorded that we haven't done the audio on because sometimes people the audio and it's not usually the other person. It's not usually us. Sometimes it's just the technology that we need to make up for and put some more work into it. But we're there. I can't think of anything else this week that is like, Oh my gosh, make sure we share this. Other than did we mention COSA? The Kids Online Safety Act, which goes right in line with AI and reading and understanding what you're doing. Congress people are being very, very much in favor of COSA here in the United States. 

I still don't know that it's going to go anywhere. It's kind of a combination of COPPA 2 and some other things. You I don't know. Paul and I reviewed it earlier this year. We'll make sure that we put the link to those notes there so you can see what we thought about it. And see if they've changed it at all because they didn't change it the last time we looked at it. 

I don't know where we are with it now. I'd have to go look at it myself again to see if it's grown hairy legs or has it transformed into a butterfly. I don't know. 

[00:32:25] Paul: Well, on that, I don't know. We'll wrap up another episode of Serious Privacy. We, sometimes we also just don't know. 

[00:32:32] K: Right? 

[00:32:33] Paul: if you like us, join the conversation on LinkedIn. You'll find us under Serious Privacy. You can also still email us at info at seriousprivacy. 

eu. Thank you. You'll find us on blue sky k as heart of privacy myself as europol b and the podcast as serious privacy 

[00:32:51] K: And I think all three of us are on Emerald Delo's Privacy Starter Pack. 

[00:32:56] Paul: Yes, there are quite a few starter packs actually on privacy, 

already 

and we are all there. I'm waiting to set up a starter pack with the European data protection authorities, 

but there's only four, not, not just the European, the global ones, but there's only four of them yet. And you need a minimum of seven to run a starter pack. 

but we'll share once that's out there for sure. On that note thank you for listening until next week. Goodbye. 

[00:33:23] K: Bye, y'all.